The Ban list.........

[Snookfingers]

ok so as we all know, GC is quick to play with the game to make it fair for everyone. however when Dice buffs and nerfs things, i think they're should be some type of forum as to discuss unbanning of prior bans based on community feedback and the minds of TAs... being a TA is more than just this so i think having this forum would alleviate them having to do more work on our behalf. The dudes already have enough stuff, so please please drop a line, follow my lead and lets make sure this game is fun for everyone, and everyone in the community will be happy killing other people in the community... virtually, on the internet.... and no i dont like grammar, that crap is for work people! this is war!

[StarfisherEcho]

The weapon ban list for this campaign was derived from discussion in this forum (General Discussions), from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=309&t=23866

We're totally open to hearing what GC folk have to say about the weapon ban list. If a patch drops that changes things around, feel free to post up here about getting something unbanned. It's a little trickier during a campaign (both generals/HCs have to agree on changes at this point), but if there's a clear consensus on a weapon being balanced I don't think they'd ignore it.

[Snookfingers]

SLAMS

thats my first post, as they have been nerfed to work properly and are more of an ambush type weapon now and not a killing machine unless they are driven into directly... the out splash damage of the slam now works properly so it does not have a 6m kill range... lets talk about this one first and discuss the pros or cons to letting it back in the game. i am all for it being it gives another choice to an engineer who already has a hard enough time against a good tanker/gunner combo(slams can be thrown further than mines which also can be advantageous)

dont forget mines still work better, if they are triggered and there is 3, youre dead.... not always true with slams, placed incorrectly, sometimes only one hits and they all explode.

[Bock]

Problems with slams:
-They aren't treated like a physical object. You can stack 3 on top of each other in the exact same spot and it will look like one slam. They often clip into other objects on the map, such as the ground, rocks, poles, walls etc... making them literally impossible to see.
-Spotting is horrendously inconsistent. You can be staring at one, aimed down sight with your red dot smack dab in the middle of it and mash your 'q' button, and it often won't get spotted. Due to the visual bugs mentioned above, tankers rely on looking at trap locations and spotting in order to know if there is anything there.
-Destroying them can be quite buggy as well. There have been many times I've put a tank shell directly into the middle of a small group of three and not a one was destroyed. Worse, sometimes only one gets destroyed and you drive ahead, thinking you've cleared all of them.

Interestingly, the M15 AT mine suffers from all of these same "features."

I don't really care one way or the other if they stay banned or not. They are very buggy, so I think the ban has some merit, but I don't think they're as OP as they were before and I think it's inconsisent to ban SLAMs but not AT mines.

[TCZapper]

While mines may share similar bugs to SLAMs they are far easier to predict and thus watch out for, so substantially less annoying. I feel like banning SLAMs is like banning PLDs/SOFLAMs: it can still be lockon hell, but it makes it less hellish.

Also, are they still invincible, invisible boat killers?

[Hgx]

Also, are they still invincible, invisible boat killers?

I think so.

[Necromancer]

SLAMS

thats my first post, as they have been nerfed to work properly and are more of an ambush type weapon now and not a killing machine unless they are driven into directly... the out splash damage of the slam now works properly so it does not have a 6m kill range...

It never supposed to have 6m kill range. It used to do maximum damage at 6 and now it still triggers at 6m but "only" does maximum damage at 3m radius.
Not sure whats the maximum damage either, and i suspect its bugged too cus i drove near a SLAM, it triggered and did 48% damage. After patch.

The biggest problem with AT mines is the rendering distance.
But since in BF4 they blow up friendly vehicles they are hardly used, and since they are hardly used they aren't a big problem and almost tje same as if it was banned.

[Snookfingers]

While mines may share similar bugs to SLAMs they are far easier to predict and thus watch out for, so substantially less annoying. I feel like banning SLAMs is like banning PLDs/SOFLAMs: it can still be lockon hell, but it makes it less hellish.

Also, are they still invincible, invisible boat killers?

not unless it is shallow enough for full damage, and they can be seen and shot at that point, dont forget you can always throw some type of explosive and destroy them, and im pretty sure it works in deeper water, but ill test that before i say it for sure, i know tankers dont want it in the game cuz they have to pay more attention zapper, but if it isn't banned in ESL who banned the spawn beacons, and its not banned in any other 32 communities after the patch.... we might have it wrong here, its a mine guys with a different use, thats its.. its not OP just annoying, and we dont ban things for being annoying.. oh wait we do lol

[Snookfingers]

SLAMS

thats my first post, as they have been nerfed to work properly and are more of an ambush type weapon now and not a killing machine unless they are driven into directly... the out splash damage of the slam now works properly so it does not have a 6m kill range...

It never supposed to have 6m kill range. It used to do maximum damage at 6 and now it still triggers at 6m but "only" does maximum damage at 3m radius.
Not sure whats the maximum damage either, and i suspect its bugged too cus i drove near a SLAM, it triggered and did 48% damage. After patch.

The biggest problem with AT mines is the rendering distance.
But since in BF4 they blow up friendly vehicles they are hardly used, and since they are hardly used they aren't a big problem and almost tje same as if it was banned.

well that was probably more than one........... since they can do 24 damage it makes sense, ive had a vehicle hit for 22 on a single and no mobility hit, they work properly... but then again we banned solfams cuz they are annoying and we didnt wanna use teamwork to take them out... so i guess i should give up on trying to get people to play the game the way it was meant to be played, DICE is still balancing the game and they get paid lots of money to do so, i think they might be a lil better handled at doing what we are horribly attempting to do.... the ban list is literally a list of thing people are "annoyed" by

[Necromancer]

DICE are balancing the game for public, no hardcore, no friendly fire etc... play.
Cus thats what 99.9999% of the people are playing.
Its not being balanced to hardcode settings, its not balanced to GC settings and its not balanced for teamplay.
its only being balanced for pub play on the official server settings.

And even that is pretty terrible, or are you going to argue that the attack chopper is also well balanced?

[Divine-Sneaker]

The way the game is meant to be played is bad. That's why some things are disallowed. Noone ever enjoyed the incessant beeping or the way that the incredibly excessive amount of lockon weapons and poorly thought out gadgets played out.

Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it's well designed, thought out, balanced or a good idea in the slightest. It might be something people are used to playing with in pubs or competitive, but isn't the idea here to play in a different style than otherwise?

With how the balance of wins on either side has gone thus far in this campaign, I don't see any incentive whatsoever to suddenly bring in a huge mass of changes just because dice patches something. With teambalancing seemingly sound, it's a much safer choice to slowly introduce changes one at a time and see what they affect. Currently the campaign map is getting the islands added and we're getting to play NS maps. That should be enough of an unknown factor for a while.

[Wi1D_K4rD]

i know tankers dont want it in the game cuz they have to pay more attention zapper,

I didn't know ban discussions involved appeal to motive fallacy arguments. That said...

Curious how one can pay "more attention" to see 3 mines stacked on each other that is not only phased under the ground but unspottable on the minimap majority of the time. The AT mines may phase into the ground as well but they are big enough that I've yet to see it completely invisible under the map unlike the SLAMs.

[Snookfingers]

i know tankers dont want it in the game cuz they have to pay more attention zapper,

I didn't know ban discussions involved appeal to motive fallacy arguments. That said...

Curious how one can pay "more attention" to see 3 mines stacked on each other that is not only phased under the ground but unspottable on the minimap majority of the time. The AT mines may phase into the ground as well but they are big enough that I've yet to see it completely invisible under the map unlike the SLAMs.

show me a screen shot, cuz i dont have that problem with my thermals on....

[Snookfingers]

While mines may share similar bugs to SLAMs they are far easier to predict and thus watch out for, so substantially less annoying. I feel like banning SLAMs is like banning PLDs/SOFLAMs: it can still be lockon hell, but it makes it less hellish.

Also, are they still invincible, invisible boat killers?

soflams were banned because of the soflam glitch that would auto lock for drivers of the vehicle, that has been fixed, and it should be in the game, bottom line.. its your TEAMS job to assess the situation and clear the way for you if there is a solfam

[Wi1D_K4rD]

i know tankers dont want it in the game cuz they have to pay more attention zapper,

I didn't know ban discussions involved appeal to motive fallacy arguments. That said...

Curious how one can pay "more attention" to see 3 mines stacked on each other that is not only phased under the ground but unspottable on the minimap majority of the time. The AT mines may phase into the ground as well but they are big enough that I've yet to see it completely invisible under the map unlike the SLAMs.

show me a screen shot, cuz i dont have that problem with my thermals on....

Yes, cause its totally doable to show a screen shot of something that isn't visible... I'm going to assume you mean video. Unfortunately, my rig isn't set up for recording without raping my fps to unplayable levels so someone else has to be the burden of proof for that.

And even if they show up on thermals if they are indeed phased through the ground when you see them on thermals, meaning you can't see them without thermals it means you can't destroy them but they can destroy you and therefore still an issue. This isn't a problem related to SLAMs in particular, I'm sure others have experienced instances where they have suddenly found themselves crawling "under" the map. Almost always in those situations the person can shoot out but no one can shoot in. The SLAMs when they are phased in the ground are in that state. making them impossible to destroy. Instances where someone sees them blows them up and drives over it and it still kills them I believe are instances where they are seeing the top of the stacked SLAMs so they are able to destroy the ones that aren't phased through the ground and it fools them into thinking it's safe. The regular AT mines are less of an issue as their larger size makes them less prone to phase entirely under the top layer of the map so they can still be shot at and destroyed when you see them.

For what it's worth I really don't care I was honestly more responding due to the fact you decided to attack tankers with your "knowledge" of why we don't want it in game. It annoys me when someone wants to have a discussion on something and they decide to bring in their magical mind reading powers as evidence.