glitching in GC battleday

[Digz]

yep again, this is the one. in the first vid, that room cannot be destroyed, the second one can be.
so throwing a nade, is easy if you spawn on A as defender. if not its hard.

[Ash2Dust]

My personal opinion on glitching.

Whether or not someone can be killed is a big concern. Getting into the map like metro is a big no. Going thru a solid wall without destroying it is glitching.

Second concern is getting yourself somewhere where the path behind you is destroyed like bazaar. I would probably draw the line where if you go somewhere that eventually someone cant knife you, then you're crossing that line.

There are indestructable walls around stairs on most maps but they allow someone to still be able to knife you because you cant make them inaccessable or unapproachable due to superior ground.

Some maps suchs as Seine and Bazaar have areas where you can destroy the wall and have a nice ambush spot. But I have to say on Karkand getting inside a room with an indestructable wall is cheap.

Basically is it a creative use of the map or is it a cheap disruptive?

Edit: TA's will ultimately have to decide from your input.

[KILLERCANKILL]

The spot on Karkand is not a glitch. A glitch is something that built in game that makes you better than other players. Sitting in a spot that can be easily shot or naded cannot be termed as a glitch. The spot is widely used in pro-games and has never been a issue. Players just need to be aware before running onto A flag. Me and my squad were in the spot facing A flag and we were easily killed of by 1 m320, it only takes that much attention.

[Fields]

I believe Digz is referring to this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6YJ9t2SYY[/youtube]

This room is easily accessible at first but only to the defending side. When the adjacent building is destroyed it can no longer be accessed at all.

This is the other glitch spot:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B_qjbD92Ok[/youtube]

Since the walls of both rooms are indestructible it does seem like a somewhat unfair advantage (at least in my opinion)

If these are the two glitch spots that we're all talking about, then I'll just point out that the building adjacent can be destroyed entirely making reaching them impossible. Besides that, if these are considered qualifying as glitches, then you might as well ban all the destructible building hiding spots on Karklands. The ones above the archway are no different from the ones behind A or overlooking B.

Furthermore, they're not really glitch spots. If anything, they're just sneaky positions that not many people know about. A glitch spot would be more like the display cases on metro that players can run through; that's an example of where the player can move somewhere they shouldn't be able to due to DICE's negligent programming/game design.

[knorren]

IMO that isn't glitching.
Glitching for me is jumping outside the map or under it, going to a place where you have an advantage and no one can get to you. Like it was on Grand Bazaar before where you could climb into a window and run under the whole map, even killing people and capture flags, until DICE fixed it, took a long time though. Have seen people do it on Metro too.

The thing showing in the vids is just smart thinking and tactics, since there is no problem to kill them all with a M67, M320 or RPG.
I can add I didn't know about the place until now, you learn new things everyday.

[Necromancer]

well, i myself think that a glitch is something the creators didn't mean for you to do.
a lot of "openings" have transparent entities to stop you from going in there. if you somehow do manage to get across, or able to get into a wall or above/under the map, thats glitching.
the fact the window is accessible makes it not a glitch.



i do however think its a little bit unfair, since you can run inside and destroy the path leading to it. the walls are indestructible and the small window makes you hard to hit. even with RPG/nade/M320 (with a flack jacket you will survive, additional medic inside and you'll be able to camp there for ever).

although its a bit unfair towards the guy youre shooting at, i think its ok overall, since both side can use it (potentially).
its the same as parachuting onto a roof, antenna or a crane. taking down a tree and going up to get to the roof of a building, etc...

"no direct path" rule seems legit, but on firestorm i ask someone to lie down so i can step on him and get on top of a container, there is no direct path you can get to me, but you can use one of your teammates and do the same. thats not a glitch.

unfair doesn't mean glitch. tank vs assault is unfair. so what?
some of the maps biased, some have vehicle superiority to one side, and we're ok to play those.
as long as its possible to kill you there, its fine IMO.

[StarfisherEcho]

My 2c

I see a "glitch" building as one that allows you to kill other people when they can't kill you, either because the building gives you perfect cover or because you're actually breaking the game in some way and are invincible.

I'm not sure any building on Karkand meets these criteria. All the ones I'm aware of either end up very open just by nature (you have to blow up a wall to get in there), or are grenade traps (easy to kill everyone inside if you just toss a few nades). The one facing away from the Alpha flag might count as a true glitch building, as it has a weird invisible wall. But I'm not sure about that, and it's the only example I can think of. Every other building you just toss a few grenades or 320s or RPGs and the problem is solved.

In addition, last campaign I'm pretty sure that every building in Karkand was allowed (PRIDe spent some time scouting this without any TA sanction) - or at least, there wasn't any visible public ruling that they were disallowed. I'd check the rules as they stand to make sure, but the wiki appears to have some sort of massive problem :/

[.Sup]

I am updating the wiki. Use this link instead: http://superia.org/Wiki/mediawiki-1.20. ... =Main_Page

[Ash2Dust]

When I was TA last campaign, I would have been very against this one building in Karkand if I knew about it.
This campaigns TAs will have to ultimately debate and decide as a group on this. Keep the opinions and info coming, it helps in making an informed judgement.
Rules arent fun, but exploits (if thats what something is judged to be) are less fun to the community as a whole. We strive for those close 1-0 ticket games. Not for the wins.

[StarfisherEcho]

But why would you be against this building (assuming we're talking about the one in the videos)? It doesn't give you a huge advantage really, except that apparently a lot of people don't know about it. It does help to be up high and in good cover, but you could say that about any building on Karkand. Throw a nade or two in there and the guy is dead. In the first vid, after the guy's killing spree, someone just shoots him in the head from the side. He could have gone on the same killing spree by setting up a bipod LMG on the building he jumped from originally.

I guess I don't understand why these buildings are considered so powerful and unbalancing. Yeah a guy getting up there has a great field of fire, but he also has huge blind spots which can easily be exploited with grenades. These buildings are nowhere near powerful enough to unbalance an attack, and since every round we've ever played on Karkand has resulted in the US side capturing Alpha, there's no empirical evidence to suggest that they're breaking the game.

edit: I should note here that following my logic banning these buildings to keep people happy wouldn't be a big deal overall. While it's true that I don't think it would change outcomes, the big problem becomes actually explaining the rule to the constant stream of new people we have here at GC. There are so many buildings on Karkand, with so many variables, that you end up inviting a lot of confusion and "wtf?" when you try to explain it. There are a bunch of buildings that lose their third floor stairs when they get hit with an explosive - would those be off limits? What about the B building after it gets hit with a rocket? What about the big corner building between A/B? And so forth.

If we're going to ban destructable buildings, we have to make sure they're actually doing damage to the game. Otherwise it's not worth the confusion IMO. Keep it simple.

[Necromancer]

Yeah, the only real advantage this room has is people not knowing about i, and thus not looking for the enemy there.
Once it becomes well known, it wont give more advantage then any other building or place.

[knorren]

i just noticed one thing while trying out the room towards the back of A, not the one pointing towards A.
There are hidden rooms inside that one and you can accidently jump down inside the wall and get stuck, well thats not a good thing but the walls inside that building nonsolid, you can run through them to two other rooms.
That room is way bigger than it shows in that video.

[RazY70]

Yeah, the only real advantage this room has is people not knowing about i, and thus not looking for the enemy there.
Once it becomes well known, it wont give more advantage then any other building or place.

Of course it give more advantages. That room controls the entire right flank and part of the center. It's indestructible, and probably inaccessible as well (after it's been populated). A single squad can significantly cripple/choke any attempt going through that direction.

You say that once we know it's there it can be easily dealt with. Well evidently it can't. It's kind of hard to hit a small head in a window while being under a constant massive barrage.

The fact that this is a glitch room is less critical. There are other similar areas on the map. It's precisely its location, right off the attackers base, that make it problematic.

[.Sup]

Raz you don't aim for the head or the window, you aim for the walls surrounding it. Splash damage either kills them or exposes them as there is no cover left.

[RazY70]

Raz you don't aim for the head or the window, you aim for the walls surrounding it. Splash damage either kills them or exposes them as there is no cover left.

The walls of that room can't be destroyed. Splash damage alone is not enough when you have Flak and 2 med packs next to you. Plus you can also be revived by other medics in the room. In order to throw grenades into the room you must first get close enough, and that's not an easy undertaking considering the open area leading to it. Furthermore, according to knorren this room also opens up to additional areas which make this even more problematic.

In short it's not as easy as it seems. If it were and this room didn't offer significant advantages no one would use it.