Global Conflict

I'm getting on a plane this Friday and I've been freaked out about it since I watched this last night

It looks like it tried to take off too steeply on liftoff or something, lost speed and stalled.

The load probably shifted. Making sure the plane is balanced is important, especially if you're taking off at a steep angle. If the cargo suddenly slides back far enough, you are now in an unrecoverable stall and are pretty much fraked.

That has to be the worst feeling in the world.

Calloutman wrote:It looks like it tried to take off too steeply on liftoff or something, lost speed and stalled.

According to the reports I've read it was due to a load shift. The plane was carring several MRAPs when the straps broke causing them to roll to the back of the plane during takeoff. This extra weight in the back made the plane pitch up until it stalled. As far as I know, there was no way for the pilot to save the aircraft.

Cheesy wrote:I'm getting on a plane this Friday and I've been freaked out about it since I watched this last night

If it makes you feel any better, airliners are still one of if not the safest forms of travel and this type of accident is virtually impossible in a passenger aircraft. You just need to make sure the passengers don't suddenly move to one side of the plane to get away from a crocodile.

zorplex wrote:

Calloutman wrote:It looks like it tried to take off too steeply on liftoff or something, lost speed and stalled.

According to the reports I've read it was due to a load shift. The plane was carring several MRAPs when the straps broke causing them to roll to the back of the plane during takeoff. This extra weight in the back made the plane pitch up until it stalled. As far as I know, there was no way for the pilot to save the aircraft.

Cheesy wrote:I'm getting on a plane this Friday and I've been freaked out about it since I watched this last night

If it makes you feel any better, airliners are still one of if not the safest forms of travel and this type of accident is virtually impossible in a passenger aircraft. You just need to make sure the passengers don't suddenly move to one side of the plane to get away from a crocodile.

Even if they do, aircraft are certified to do take-offs at the with the most in-opertune load distribution. The takeoff that the pilots of the above aircraft attempted was probably steeper than the certified take-off angle. Which wouldnt be a problem had the load not shifted.

IIRC many of the airfields in Iraq/Afhganistan required really steep take off angles to minimize the chance they'd get shot at.

StarfisherEcho wrote:IIRC many of the airfields in Iraq/Afhganistan required really steep take off angles to minimize the chance they'd get shot at.

This is true to an extent, it's not entirely about not getting shot at, but a lot of airfields in the middle-east do require a much higher angle of ascent during takeoff

don't worry.
aircrafts are built to be resilient.

United Airlines Flight 811 - blown cargo door
http://youtu.be/bup_ebo-IiM?t=29m59s Aloha Airlines Flight 243 - explosive decompression
http://youtu.be/MksspWoe79Q?t=2m32s British Airways Flight 5390 - cockpit window blows out sucking out the captain.
http://youtu.be/U4Dw4sux8FY?t=1m46s

Air Transat Flight 236 - fuel leak shuts down both engines forcing the plane to glide 120km to the nearest runway.
http://youtu.be/F3Ii571Ovi8?t=19m6s

statistics
Odds of being on an airline flight which results in at least one fatality

• Bottom 39 with the worst accident rates - 1 in 1.5 million
• 78 major world airlines - 1 in 3.4 million
• Top 39 airlines with the best accident rates - 1 in 10.0 million

• Whenever we fly, we have a 0.000014% chance of dying!
• You are nineteen times safer in a plane than in a car.
• about one thousand people die every year in aviation accidents, out of more then one million flights of large passenger planes.

see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_a ... Statistics
http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
How safe is commercial flight?

On the flip side, it's fairly common for Aerospace Engineers not to fly commercial. Especially the ones involved in standards. Things like knowing Airliners are only rated to 4G makes some a bit skittish.

As for planes being certified to take off with the most inopportune load balances...that's a bit sketchy. There's usually charts detailing allowable CG positions that load masters use. You definitely can't just throw a bunch of weight in a hold, tie it down, and expect the aircraft to get airborne.

Now throw an MRAP into the mix. (it was carrying 5 of them). Since MRAPs is a generic term, based on the number being carried it's safe to say they were Cat 1s. So each one weighs roughly 14-15 tons (they definitely weren't carrying RG-31s). 14 tons sliding backwards as the plane takes off. Planes don't deal well with live loads, let alone a 14 ton one. The idea of even attempting the math behind that pains me.

This thing was loaded pretty much to its limit in terms of CG. Then it had a live load introduced during takeoff. I'm incredibly hesitant to blame this on the pilot(s) for taking off too steeply.

Also, Tactical landings were replaced by Combat landings for most cargo aircraft in theater. None of the steep straight dives anymore (though it's fun as crap to be in the webbing of C-130 during one). Neither are the theaters hot enough to warrant Vy takeoffs. Not that any commercial entity is going to get anywhere close to maximum climb rates, they all use derated power and climb rates to save some wear on the engines.

TacticalVirus wrote:The idea of even attempting the math behind that pains me.

Don't worry. No one wants you doing the math, anyway.

...thank you Bock, it's always good to laugh first thing in the morning